REBOL3 - View (discuss view related issues [web-public])

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# User Message Date
10740 Endo Very nice! 26-Jan 7:39
10739 Davide Nice !
p: 0x0 img: make image! [200x200] loop 100000 [poke img p red p: (pick [100x0 0x200 200x200] random 3) + p / 2] view layout [image img]
25-Jan 23:55
10738 GrahamC Rechart's involvement with Rebol predates Rebol ! lol 9-Jan 22:47
10737 Sunanda Nothing relevant in my copy of the original REBOL world, nor its short-lived sucessor REBOL2, Nothing obvious on the Mailing list archive -- that goes back to mid-2000 which, I think, predates Reichart's involvement with REBOL. 9-Jan 20:17
10736 GrahamC Maybe the ones in question were on earlier incarnations of this world 9-Jan 19:53
10735 GrahamC Some quines were posted to the mailing list 9-Jan 19:52
10734 Gregg Didn't turn it up here. 9-Jan 19:16
10733 Gabriele Maybe I have it in some old archive. Let me know if I should search. 8-Jan 13:27
10732 Gabriele Reichart, I think I wrote one of those. (I think we were talking here, and I threw something together so that we could play with it.) 8-Jan 13:26
10731 Geomol If it's me "John", then I don't remember atm. If it comes back, I'll say so. 8-Jan 10:50
10730 Ladislav The quines in the library are string-based. That is not how the scripts in Rebol should look, as the documentation suggests. There were other sources of REBOL quines, I remember putting a couple of quines somewhere too, but it seems, that the corresponding pages have been either taken down or "cleaned" by some zealot. 8-Jan 9:49
10729 Reichart No, I did not put it in the lib, although I think Greg may have done another version of what I wrote and submitted it. John too played with it and did something as well. It is not a big deal, I can rewrite it , was just hoping to have the original, I might still have it somewhere. 8-Jan 2:17
10728 Sunanda A program that displays itself is a quine. Some in the library, but none from Reichart www.rebol.org/search.r?find=quine 7-Jan 19:50
10727 Steeve what is the generic name for such program already ? 7-Jan 19:32
10726 Reichart Anyone happen to have a copy of the self modifying program I wrote in REBOL years ago? The one tht displays itself, and then lets you modify itself? 7-Jan 19:26
10725 Endo Yes as Admin on both. 5-Jan 9:40
10724 GrahamC As admin? 5-Jan 8:44
10723 Endo Strange, I tried several times on my XP/Home it crashed everytime. But no crash on my XP/Pro. 5-Jan 7:54
10722 sqlab no crash here WinXP, Rebol 2.7.8 5-Jan 6:54
10721 Endo Another crash I found: get-modes system/ports/system 'port-modes others don't crash: 'network-modes, 'file-modes, 'copy-modes 4-Jan 22:43
10720 Endo Nope, I tried only with R2/view 2.7.8.3.1 But I found the crashed part, on line 251: face/text: bud: pick users count ;crash!, PICKing from users is ok, setting face/text crashes.
users is a block of something strange: users/1 == <script type="text/javascript">  crash rebol.exe. Tested on XP Pro SP3. View 2.7.8.3.1.1 ;function get called when the text clicked, crash happens when dragging.
19-Sep 6:47
10606 Henrik thanks 18-Sep 10:01
10605 Endo I see, so you can try this function. 18-Sep 9:58
10604 Henrik I don't think copying the text is much of a problem. 18-Sep 9:49
10603 Endo Henrik, I wrote another version of the function which is a bit better. It could help about the bug you told. The only problem is it it makes a copy of the given text. So it is not the same text anymore. http://rebolforum.com/index.cgi?f=printtopic&topicnumber=46 18-Sep 9:44
10602 Henrik Endo, that looks interesting. Do you think it could be used to fix the box with "Wednesday" in it:
http://rebol.hmkdesign.dk/files/vid-postscript2.png
16-Sep 7:53
10601 Endo I wrote a function to get a copy of a wrapped text in a face object. Please have a look at it. If you have a better idea please let me know: http://rebolforum.com/index.cgi?f=printtopic&topicnumber=46
it uses offset-to-carret to find the line positions and inserts a newline to that position in the text.
16-Sep 7:46
10600 Endo Ok. Thanks a lot. 8-Sep 11:50
10599 Henrik I use it in a production environment, but it is continually improving, though I'm taking a break from it right now. 8-Sep 11:49
10598 Endo Henrik: Thank you! I'll play VIDExt more! Is it stable enough to use in a production do you think? 8-Sep 11:47
10597 Henrik Endo, I solved this in the VID Extension Kit. 8-Sep 11:44
10596 Endo "As I see there is no chance to make face/data and face/texts for text-list, choice styles" --> As I see there is no chance to make face/data and face/texts >different< for text-list, choice styles. 8-Sep 11:44
10595 Endo I see. Thank you. As I see there is no chance to make face/data and face/texts for text-list, choice styles. When I change like face/data: copy ["a" "b" "c"] then face/texts is also syncronized. and vice-versa. The only way is to use the index? of selected item on a block which holds item-data. Is that right? 8-Sep 11:43
10594 Gabriele text-list uses the text itself as the key, so each string has to be different. if you can't use a better alternative for some reason, you could change the strings to something like "1) aaa" "2) bbb" "3) aaa" ... etc. 8-Sep 8:49
10593 Henrik It's probably a bug. 8-Sep 7:41
10592 Endo view layout [f: text-list data ["aaa" "bbb" "aaa" "ccc"] [probe f/picked]] When I click on "aaa" both lines are selected. Do I missing something or is it a bug in text-list? When use CTRL click, no chance to get both "aaa" in f/picked 8-Sep 7:37
10591 Gabriele The best solution would be to have options you can set so you get the behavior you want. Alternatively, access to the lower levels so tthat you can do the typesetting yourself. Too much abstraction is as harmful as too little. 30-Aug 9:15
10590 Endo Ok, I tried different text editors to see the word wrap behaviours, they all have different behaviours. Now I see your point. I thought that it is a bug (and still feel like that) because "it doesn't matter how many spaces you insert to the beginning, "test" doesn't move after some point" (How it should move? you asked, I don't know, but it SHOULD move somehow if I constantly add more spaces) All the other tools (notepad, notepad++, editplus etc.) behaves different than each other. They wrap the line, if you add more spaces after some point they move (push) the text down or right or somewhere. But they move it anyway. They don't stop somewhere. Anyway, thank you for your time & responses. 29-Aug 12:08
10589 Gabriele The situation you describe is in no way different than the above examples. Just increase the number of Xs - you only end up with *more* possibilities of where to break. Where would you break? From the way you describe it, you seem to want to break like in example (2). Show me anything that does *word* wrapping and produces the result as in (2). 29-Aug 9:36
10588 Endo Take the Izakata's example: you are inserting spaces to the beginning of a face/text. It "works" to some point and then it stops changing the face/text. (well it changes the text itself but doesn't show it on the face) I mean that, it should somehow break the line even if the line has spaces (wrap before/after/somewhere). Take any text editor, they somehow does word-wrapping. Think that you have two paragraph text and there are, say 100 spaces between them, you don't have a chance to put that text directly into a face/text. Replacing all spaces to NBSP is not a complete solution because NBSP is not a whitespace char so they are not wrapped until end-of-line. In the current situation: "if your face is 50px width and word wrap is on, then you cannot put 100 spaces between any two words in the face/text (face cannot display those text correctly)" This looks still a major bug to me.. 28-Aug 20:44
10587 Gabriele Should you break it at any point? Only before a space? Only after a space?
Imagine you have "aXXword" where I replaced spaces by an X. How would you break it?
a XXword
aX Xword
aXX word
You're saying that REBOL should do like in the second example. That would be unacceptable in most cases though; REBOL does like in the third example, which is what makes the most sense in the most cases. You have a more specific case, where it's probably best to just use NBSP or to come up with your own line breaking algorithm.
28-Aug 17:18
10586 Gabriele Keeping text as is means not breaking lines. If you break them, you're not keeping it as is, and have to make a decision where to break it. 28-Aug 17:14
10585 Endo Graham: I know this, but what if you should have those spaces? Izkata: Yes this could an example as well. My second example shows the problem exactly. Gabriele: I think the best behavior is to keep text as it is. (at least we should have this option, using as-is etc.) If a text document is formatted with spaces (think that using a propotional font, take the old Amiga Autodocs files as example) you can never put those texts into a face/text. Face/text is not a document like html, even if it would be more than one space chars should be treated as one space char.
So I'm still thinking that it is a word-wrap bug in the View engine.
28-Aug 13:21
10584 Gabriele Endo, this behavior is common to many, if not most, word wrapping algorithm. It makes no sense to wrap the spaces themselves to the second line; OTOH, it can be argued that it makes no sense to have more than one space in a sequence as well, so it's hard to say what is the best behavior. 28-Aug 10:26
10583 Izkata This should show you what's going on:
view/new layout [T: text 100x400 {Text} white blue as-is] loop 50 [insert T/text { } show T wait 0.2]
28-Aug 0:16
10582 GrahamC trim/head 27-Aug 23:52
10581 Endo And the problem is you cannot read a file and put it into a face/text IF the document have lots of spaces at the beginning, even if you use as-is. 27-Aug 23:01
10580 Endo How can you call that a feature? The text field is 100 pixels width, I put 500 space chars and then a word after that, and the word appears on the second line of the text field. Where is that 500 chars? Even if you insert new spaces (let say 1000 more) the word position doesn't change. If you think it as a html document (all whilte-spaces treated as one space char) then why it stands on the second line? 27-Aug 22:57
10579 Izkata I would call that a feature, not a bug. The (normal) breaking space allows word wrapping to split between words, rather than in the middle of words... 27-Aug 15:45
10578 Endo Here is the difference: t1: join head insert/dup copy "" #{20} 500 "test" t2: join head insert/dup copy "" #{A0} 500 "test" view layout [text 100x400 t1 white blue as-is return text 100x400 t2 white red as-is] 27-Aug 8:52
10577 Endo No it doesn't change the result. To test it give a width for the text:
t: join head insert/dup copy "" " " 500 "test" view layout [text 100x400 t white blue as-is]
"test" is still on the second line. I tried as-is, line-list: none, I need to use wrap?: yes. Otherwise I have to my own wrap function which I don't have time to do.
27-Aug 8:48
10576 Izkata The word doesn't have to be literal:
view layout [text t white blue as-is]
27-Aug 2:39
10575 Gregg Just to make Graham's suggestion explicit. 27-Aug 2:26
10574 Gregg t: join head insert/dup copy "" " " 500 "test" view layout [text t white blue]
t: join head insert/dup copy "" " " 500 "test" view layout [text t white blue 'as-is]
27-Aug 2:26
10573 GrahamC as-is ? 26-Aug 23:02
10572 GrahamC no-wrap ? 26-Aug 23:02
10571 Endo I can only find a workaround, I use #{A0} (no-break space, alt + 0160) character instead of normal space #{20}. Then it works ok. 26-Aug 21:15
10570 Endo It doesn't matter how many space character you put in to face/text, it always shows the text after spaces, on the second line. I tried f/line-line: none etc. If I replace spaces with anything else then it works as expected. But space chars somehow ignored by the face. 26-Aug 21:05
10569 Endo fnt: make face/font [ name: "Courier New" size: 14 align: 'left valign: 'top color: white ]
f: make face [color: blue / 2 edge: none size: 300x200 text: "" font: fnt] window: layout/size [] 500x400 insert window/pane :f loop 500 [insert f/text " "] append f/text "test" view window
26-Aug 21:02
10568 Endo There is a very annoying bug on View (2.7.8.3.1), can anyone confirm that? Please see the code below: 26-Aug 21:00
10567 Maxim yeah, its been like that a long time, its just an edge case which people don't hit often. you probably where using faces with colors and you didn't realize it. 19-Jul 15:19
10566 Endo Ok, thank you. I understand. Earlier versions of 2.7.x it wasn't like this as I remember. (or am I getting older?:) ) 19-Jul 15:17
10565 Maxim because the face is transparent, and modifying it (not creating new images) you have to merge the background... this change occured a long time ago (draw V2 IIRC).
in your second example, it works only because you set the face color, which is then multiplied.
first example, fixed:
view layout [ backdrop effect [gradient 1x1 180.0.0 0.0.100] vh2 "Layout Definition:" 200x22 yellow effect [ MERGE gradmul 1x0 50.50.50 128.128.128] vtext bold italic "Layouts describe graphical user interfaces." button "Remember" effect [gradient 0.0.0] ]
19-Jul 14:53
10564 Endo hmm.. if I give a second color for VH2 then it works as expected. Some lastest changes affected this I think.
view layout [ backdrop effect [gradient 1x1 180.0.0 0.0.100] vh2 "Layout Definition:" 200x22 yellow red effect [gradmul 1x0 50.50.50 128.128.128] vtext bold italic "Layouts describe graphical user interfaces." button "Remember" effect [gradient 0.0.0] ]
19-Jul 14:27
10563 Endo This example, in REBOL/View Developer's Guide was working before, but now gradmul effect doesn't give the expected result. I tested it on View V2.7.7.3.1 and 2.7.8.3.1
view layout [ backdrop effect [gradient 1x1 180.0.0 0.0.100] vh2 "Layout Definition:" 200x22 yellow effect [gradmul 1x0 50.50.50 128.128.128] vtext bold italic "Layouts describe graphical user interfaces." button "Remember" effect [gradient 0.0.0] ]
19-Jul 14:22
10562 Endo that is strange.. I'll test it again in a few days, the PC is on a customer place.. 6-Jul 9:21
10561 Gabriele I've never seen this either. But all my scripts that use load/library are started with -s... (or encapped) 6-Jul 9:16
10560 Endo yep, I checked rambo, no ticket for this. 5-Jul 15:01
10559 Maxim so maybe there is a bug within the secure function. did you check on RAMBO? 5-Jul 14:57
10558 Endo if we don't use --secure allow or -s. 5-Jul 14:56
10557 Maxim AFAIK yes. 5-Jul 14:56
10556 Endo secure allow should behave like that, right? 5-Jul 14:55
10555 Maxim I always use -qs. 5-Jul 14:50
10554 Maxim I've never had the problem. (even on w7) 5-Jul 14:50
10553 Endo So it looks -s and --secure don't behave same. Which can be a bug in current R2/View. 5-Jul 13:41
10552 Endo But if I start rebol.exe with --secure option then it doesn't pop up security check window. I tested this on Windows XP/2008. 5-Jul 13:40
10551 Endo The problem still there even I start rebol.exe with -s option. 5-Jul 13:39
10550 Endo Can someone confirm this issue: secure allow permits all access, but library access still pops up security window.
>> secure allow == [net allow library allow shell allow registry allow envr allow file allow]
>> dll: load/library %REb-Excel.dll ** Access Error: REBOL - Security Violation ** Near: dll: load/library %REb-Excel.dll
5-Jul 13:38
10549 james_nak Yes, I actually saw that in my tests as well. For now this one "wait" seems to be doing its job and I just hope it is not system-dependent in terms of the time I have set the wait for. 11-Jun 14:34
10548 Maxim yes, the wait allows the event system to act like an async system.
just be careful though, you can get lost in concurrency and get apps which close all windows but don't actually close the rebol process, which ends up in an event deadlock. :-)
10-Jun 20:39
10547 Henrik ok, cool 10-Jun 19:21
10546 james_nak Yup, the wait does the trick. Thanks Henrik. 10-Jun 19:20
10545 james_nak OK, I'm getting close. 10-Jun 19:18
10544 james_nak I'll put a wait and see 10-Jun 19:16
10543 james_nak Yes, I've tried to do that but it doesn't seem to work. 10-Jun 19:15
10542 Henrik perhaps if you wait a short period prior to reading the flag in the loop. 10-Jun 19:15
10541 Henrik I usually set a flag with a button and try to read the flag in the loop. I'm not sure if it's easy to get an immediately responding button, though. 10-Jun 19:14
10540 james_nak I have a problem. Basically I need to know how to interupt a function that is looping. So this is what happens: The user presses "start" button which calls the printing routine. I want to be able to allow him to stop the process if he wishes by pressing a "stop" button. The issue is the face is only recording my attempts to stop. Any thoughts? 10-Jun 19:11
10539 Maxim face changes is used for the internal show to optimise if/what it should redraw. as such its a "write only" property, reading from it makes no real sense.
for example if you set changes to [offset] it will move the window MUCH faster than if you change offset & show without it.
14-Feb-11 23:34
10538 Henrik I can see a maximize and a minimize event, but no restore event. And face/changes is cleared, when the event handler reads it. Not very useful. 14-Feb-11 19:47
10537 Henrik How does one capture whether a window is maximized or not? 14-Feb-11 19:43
10536 Maxim yes, its a BUG in AGG, using more than 2 values in line pattern will cause the crash. its the oldest AGG bug I know of.
spoke with cyphre, its possible that this will be fixed in next release of R2, which shoudn't take more than a few weeks IMHO.
31-Jan-11 14:01
10535 DideC I always get : Instruction at "0x7c920cce" use the memory address "0x40080000". The memory can't be "read".
(rougthly traduce from the French message !)
31-Jan-11 11:56
10534 Dockimbel Tested with View 2.7.7 & 2.7.8 on Win7/32-bit, it quits too here. 31-Jan-11 11:11
10533 Oldes It's known bug. At least Maxim was talking about it with Cyphre in OSX group a few days ago. 31-Jan-11 10:14
10532 Henrik it just quits here in 2.7.7. 31-Jan-11 9:03
10531 DideC The following code cause an error if you click on the window (XP SP2) :
view layout [box effect [ draw [ pen none navy line-pattern 2 7 2 3 ]]]
Does others could confirm the problem ?
31-Jan-11 8:55
10530 Maxim for those who don't know how to change the title of a window in R2....
rebol []
win: view/offset/new layout [ button 400x20"change window name" [ win/text: random "ogiue goiueng oesigneso ginue sogine sgioun " win/changes: [text] show win] ] 200x200
do-events
30-Jan-11 1:32
10529 GrahamC Thanks .. looks like send-keys solves my problem too :) I needed to send a backspace to a rebgui field to initialize it and this works 23-Jan-11 0:56
10528 Gregg Graham, sent. 22-Jan-11 0:04
10527 GrahamC Gregg, please send it to me 20-Jan-11 18:39
10526 Maxim did it not rely on the console being opened to work? 20-Jan-11 18:00
10525 Gregg My old send-keys stuff should be around somewhere. If not, let me know and I'll zap it to you. 20-Jan-11 17:38
10524 GrahamC I can't actually get focus to the face either :( 18-Jan-11 6:37
10523 ChristianE Leaving all RebGUI specialities aside, can't you just patch the widgets FEEL/ENGAGE to allow objects being passed to it? If there is a point where you're in control to FOCUS the face in question, that may be possible. 18-Jan-11 6:32
10522 GrahamC I thought Gregg did some Api work with windows... can't find it by googling. 18-Jan-11 5:48
10521 GrahamC hmm...maybe something else. just control the mouse and the keyboard buffer 18-Jan-11 5:38
10520 Maxim yeah it exists. just google it. 18-Jan-11 5:37
10519 GrahamC is there a windows key stroke recorder? 18-Jan-11 5:37
10518 Maxim just build an object with the same fields as an event and it will work :-) 18-Jan-11 5:34
10517 Maxim though you can call a face's feel if you want. 18-Jan-11 5:34
10516 Maxim you can't generate events in normal view R2. 18-Jan-11 5:34
10515 GrahamC or backspace ... 18-Jan-11 5:33
10514 GrahamC I don't think you can insert a del 18-Jan-11 5:33
10513 GrahamC there's a bug in my widget and i have to stuff one character in it, delete it and then insert the characters I want 18-Jan-11 5:33
10512 GrahamC it's a RebGUi issue 18-Jan-11 5:32
10511 Maxim what do you mean it doesnt work? 18-Jan-11 5:32
10510 GrahamC that doesn't work .. so I'm thinking some key recorder or something 18-Jan-11 5:31
10509 Maxim the standard view doesn't have programmable events. but you can set the field's data after focus... 18-Jan-11 5:31
10508 GrahamC unfortunately I can't rewrite 1000s of lines to just solve one issue 18-Jan-11 5:30
10507 Maxim you can in glass ;-) 18-Jan-11 5:30
10506 GrahamC Or, should I be looking at some windows macro programs? 18-Jan-11 5:29
10505 GrahamC Is there a way to set focus on a field and then send some characters into the keyboard buffer or something to simulate key strokes? 18-Jan-11 5:29
10504 DideC Oh my god. sorry for the mistake. Jumping from R2 to R3 syntax make me dumb. 10-Jan-11 14:37
10503 Cyphre you are missing the EFFECT facet in your code (the DRAW block is inside EFFECT block in R2) so the correct way is:
view layout [ box white 327x327 effect [draw [ pen logo.gif fill-pen off box 100x100 300x300 ]] ]
28-Dec-10 20:36
10502 DideC It error out with 2.7.7, 1.3.1, 1.2.8 so whats-up ? Is this just R3 Draw capability ? 28-Dec-10 9:52
10501 DideC ...but this is an example from the Wiki docs : http://www.rebol.net/wiki/Pen 28-Dec-10 9:50
10500 DideC >> view layout [ [ box white 327x327 draw [ [ pen logo.gif fill-pen off box 100x100 300x300 [ ] [ ] ** Script Error: draw expected image argument of type: image pair ** Where: do-facets ** Near: draw [ pen logo.gif fill-pen off box 100x100 300x300 ] 28-Dec-10 9:50
10499 Gregg If you expect to support large, dense, spreadsheets, you may want to minimize storage by having a name mapping interface. If the target is small/medium/sparse sheets, having the name explicit for each cell may be practical. In any case, having a alias system would be nice, for named cells and ranges. 27-Dec-10 18:38
10498 Robert Both make sense. We use a name generator on our RebGUI grid implementation, the nice thing about this is, that it's position independent. If the column order etc. changes, the names stay the same. 26-Dec-10 13:44
10497 GrahamC accessing cells programmatically .. ie. populating them with data 26-Dec-10 4:55
10496 Steeve I would say both of them, but are you talking about the user interface of the style or something else ? 26-Dec-10 3:47
10495 GrahamC When writing a spreadsheet/grid, is it better to give each cell a name, or work out the location based on a grid reference? 26-Dec-10 0:42
10494 ddharing I decided to leave the original style alone and use your fat-list definition for the reasons you stated. Thanks. 7-Dec-10 15:45
10493 Anton It depends on if you need the original text-list style unmodified alongside your patched version. If you intend merging in other code, then it's better to derive a new style. If not, then it doesn't matter. 7-Dec-10 15:38
10492 ddharing Yes, but yours is more elegant than the crude patch job I just did to the actual text-list style. :) 7-Dec-10 15:32
10491 Anton Oh, you already did it. 7-Dec-10 15:31
10490 Anton stylize/master [ fat-list: text-list with [ use [blk][ init: copy init blk: copy select init [pane: layout/size] replace/all blk 16x0 32x0 change/only find/tail init [pane: layout/size] blk ] ] ]
view center-face layout [fat-list "Is the scroller" "fat enough?"]
7-Dec-10 15:30
10489 ddharing Anton, that worked great. Thanks. 7-Dec-10 15:26
10488 Anton You just need to patch that. 7-Dec-10 15:19
10487 Anton Note the hardcoded size 16x0. 7-Dec-10 15:18
10486 Anton print mold svv/vid-styles/text-list/init 7-Dec-10 15:18
10485 ddharing I'm having trouble changing the scroller size (i.e. width) for the text-list style. Changing the font size was easy enough. I'm trying to make it bigger to accommdate fat fingers on a touch screen display. Has anyone done this before? Thanks. 7-Dec-10 15:11
10484 Endo I see, thanks. 1-Dec-10 8:41
10483 Oldes I guess GET-NET-INFO is some left over from REBOL's boot and should be unset when it finish. It's same as in 2.7.6 1-Dec-10 8:25
10482 Endo In View 2.7.7.3.1, get-net-info function gives the following error: ** Script Error: get-reg has no value ** Where: get-net-info ** Near: def-mailer: get-reg/hkcr "mailto\shell\open\command" "" 1-Dec-10 8:21
10481 Gregg Sometimes, not sure with dropdown data, you need to update the line-list facet as well. A few styles force you to work with their internals this way, when doing more than simple UIs. 22-Nov-10 6:17
10480 GrahamC try
clear head mydropdowndata/data
if using rebgui
20-Nov-10 19:55
10479 amacleod Found the prob... I was using "Clear myropdowndata" Changed it the "Mydropdowndata: [ ]
Seemed to affect other fields as well
20-Nov-10 16:29
10478 amacleod I'm getting some strange giberish characters when I clear a drop-down by filing it with "". Is there a better way to do it? 20-Nov-10 16:10
10477 Gabriele lol... i meant, in the discussion here. :-) 5-Nov-10 9:40
10476 GrahamC Gab, fact is .. I don't read Italian :) 4-Nov-10 18:21
10475 Gabriele Graham, I never talked about popularity, indeed. :) 4-Nov-10 11:12
10474 Cyphre Maxim, re SCALE that is a known issue in R2 DRAW. Not sure when(if) will be fixed...use R3 ;) 4-Nov-10 10:24
10473 GrahamC Whether some is better than something else appears to matter little when determining popularity 4-Nov-10 5:47
10472 GrahamC sounds like you could combine the two .. but the reason I posted the link is because I thought it could be easily programmed in R 4-Nov-10 5:46
10471 Gabriele here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9b8NlMd79w 4-Nov-10 5:12
10470 Gabriele you're now making it special purpose.
don't forget that a lot of people already know the qwerty layout so "aiming" the letters is pretty natural. then there was also that other input method where it could figure out what you type even without a keyboard on screen (forgot the name)
4-Nov-10 5:01
10469 Maxim well, swype does require you to "aim" the letters... 8pen could be used by a blind person within a short time. 4-Nov-10 4:38
10468 Gabriele it's a bit like dvorak - as much as i like it, use it, and prefer it to qwerty, there is no actual independent study that proves that it is "better" 4-Nov-10 4:34
10467 Gabriele the real question (which I posted on FB as well, but in italian as I was commenting a friend's link), is whether there is any proof that this is "better" than swype 4-Nov-10 4:32
10466 Maxim chanes = increases 4-Nov-10 4:32
10465 Maxim can anyone tell me how I can improve the rendering of the above circle ?
its extremely ugly . this is directly related to the use of the SCALE in the draw block.
as the scale chanes, it seems that the quality of the circle improves... but I need this to be pretty when its small as well as when its very large.
4-Nov-10 4:31
10464 Maxim view layout [box 200x200 effect [ draw [ push [ scale 0.106 0.106 pen black fill-pen red line-width 14 box 0x0 1000x1000 fill-pen white pen none circle 500x500 170 ] ] ]] 4-Nov-10 4:30
10463 Maxim henrik, try typing on a (small) touchscreen when shacking, its even worse, this device doesn't need to be precise, which is the point.
now one thing they don't mention is that our brain has an internal "rest position" hard-wired, and that is where the center dot is very well tought. whenever you move any part of you body, the moment you stop thinking about it, it goes back to its rest position by itself. this is very obvious when you swipe you mouse quickly, you hand will go back to its original position by reflex.
so using this in a shacky environment, where I can squeeze the device in my hand will, IMHO, be much easier to use quickly. its obvious it takes a little bit of time for your brain to associate the letters to direction and rotation amount, but since doing the next letter is just a question of going back to the rest position, I feel its very fast and easy to get used to.
3-Nov-10 17:18
10462 Izkata But I've also had issues with Swype whenever I tried to use a word not in its dictionary. Using SwiftKey for now, but 8pen is something I'm considering trying. 3-Nov-10 15:14
10461 AdrianS I watched the video and I'm not too impressed. Something like swype seems to work a lot faster. With that you define a whole word in one continuous stroke 3-Nov-10 13:30
10460 GrahamC You could glue a pimple on the screen 3-Nov-10 8:50
10459 Henrik Did they perform the staircase test? Can it be used while walking up and down a flight of stairs?
Looks ok, but they made one mistake in assigning space to letting go of the gesture area at the center. That's too specific for a bumbling train ride, or where you can only pay partial attention to your device. Also, blind-typing and locating the center spot probably won't work. It's once again, not just the size of hands that are the problem, but the much more varied environment, in which you are operating your device.
3-Nov-10 8:47
10458 GrahamC I can imagine that HP will object 3-Nov-10 2:22
10457 Maxim yep.. but patent reviewers actually do not really research these things for more than one hour... so unless someone challenges it, and the claims are different than other alternate character entry solutions, then they probably have an almost certainty in getting it. it will be very easy to defend also, because its SO simple and doesn't rely on math algorythm just a dirt simple idea which I have never seen before.
this being said, its possible that the idea itself isn't new within this research field, but I've never seen this in a commercial form before.
3-Nov-10 2:19
10456 GrahamC well, I guess the answer lies in whether their patent application succeeds or not 3-Nov-10 2:17
10455 Maxim its probably doable in 100 rebol lines of code :-) 3-Nov-10 2:16
10454 Maxim no special shape detection nothing actually mathy about it. 3-Nov-10 2:15
10453 Maxim that's it. 3-Nov-10 2:15
10452 Maxim no.. all letters are produced using the same gesture... turning clockwise or counter-clockwise.. its very smart. 3-Nov-10 2:15
10451 GrahamC so I would say both shorthand and gestures constitute prior art 3-Nov-10 2:15
10450 GrahamC for those who learnt shorthand 3-Nov-10 2:14
10449 GrahamC looks like a shorthand g to me 3-Nov-10 2:14
10448 Maxim you don't draw a semblence of a G... you start up and turn left or right from 90 to 360 degres. 3-Nov-10 2:14
10447 GrahamC the only new thing is some lines on the screen :) 3-Nov-10 2:14
10446 GrahamC if you draw a semblance of a g and it turns it into a g .. what's new about that? 3-Nov-10 2:13
10445 Maxim not really.. the only prior art it shares is in the fact that you scrub your fingers.. its not actually using shapes, but a very simple clockwise counting algorythm. 3-Nov-10 2:13
10444 GrahamC builds on prior art 3-Nov-10 2:12
10443 Maxim since its not really gestures in the way I'm used to understand them. 3-Nov-10 2:12
10442 GrahamC it's evolution ... not revolution 3-Nov-10 2:12
10441 Maxim though the result seems easy to reproduce, the research and the original idea of how this is being approached is very nice. 3-Nov-10 2:12

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